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Recently a self confessed anti-nuke sockpuppet in this space tried out (again) the lie that the anti-nuke industry is something other than a, well, puppet of the dangerous fossil fuel industry.  

I don't buy it for a New York second.   In my experience, there are ZERO anti-nukes, whether they are the scientific illiterates in Greenpeace or whether they are unaffiliated anti-nukes, who are not apologists for dangerous fossil fuel mining, dangerous fossil fuel waste dumping - directly into their favorite dump, the planetary atmosphere - and dangerous fossil fuel accidents.   ZERO.   Note in saying this I am not claiming that they are paid pro-fossil fuel sockpuppets, even though the same assholes who engage in anti-nuke dangerous fossil fuel apologetics often claim that I must be employed by the nuclear industry.   I have no intention of describing my personal life here, but I can say with admiration that if one is employed by the nuclear industry, one can, should, and must be proud of one's intellectual and moral integrity.    A career in nuclear science and engineering is not only intellectually challenging, but it is a highly ethical enterprise in service to humanity, irrespective of what dumb scientific illiterates have to say about it.   However, the claim by anti-nukes that the only reason that anyone can do anything is for money indicates exactly and precisely what their mentality is.   They are all, everyone of them in my experience, materialist consumer types.   They are preternatually incapable of understanding an ethical position.

Nevertheless it is easily shown that there are paid anti-nukes, highly paid anti-nukes who are paid by dangerous fossil fuel companies directly for their dangerous fossil fuel apologetics.

Consider the scientifically illiterate anti-nuke Amory Lovins.   We've heard in this space lots of whining about the tar sands pipeline into the US, as if the complainants had never filled their tanks with Canadian oil sands derived gasoline.   (Fat chance.)   Now, for the record I oppose all dangerous fossil fuels, including tar sands, and believe they should all be phased out as quickly as is conceivable.   You will never see me engaged in apologetics for any dangerous fossil fuels, but I'm not Amory Lovins.

So we're all against tar sands here?   I guess than that Amory Lovins is not a Kossack then.

Here, from anti-nuke Lovins' own website is a list of the companies for whom he "consults," that is the companies that pay for his consumerist McMansion in Snowmass, Colorado, just outside of Aspen, where he has his offices in a neighborhood that is not walkable.

Famous Anti-nuke Amory Lovins describes his revenue sources:

Mr. Lovins’s other clients have included Accenture, Allstate, AMD, Anglo American, Anheuser-Busch, Bank of America, Baxter, Borg-Warner, BP, HP Bulmer, Carrier, Chevron, Ciba-Geigy, CLSA, ConocoPhillips, Corning, Dow, Equitable, GM, HP, Invensys, Lockheed Martin, Mitsubishi, Monsanto, Motorola, Norsk Hydro, Petrobras, Prudential, Rio Tinto, Royal Dutch/Shell, Shearson Lehman Amex, STMicroelectronics, Sun Oil, Suncor, Texas Instruments, UBS, Unilever, Westinghouse, Xerox, major developers, and over 100 energy utilities. His public-sector clients have included the OECD, the UN, and RFF; the Australian, Canadian, Dutch, German, and Italian governments; 13 states; Congress, and the U.S. Energy and Defense Departments.

Please note the "Suncor."   Solar company, you say?   Hardly.   Suncor is the "green" tar sands company.

Suncor, "green" joint venture of Sunoco and Petro Canada.

We have lots of people here whining about the President of the United States and his approval of the Suncor pipeline, but at least, unlike Amory Lovins who generates very little in the way of whimpers of protest here, the President is not openly paid by Suncor.

Lately we've been hearing that the ignorance, fear, and superstition that constitutes the German anti-nuke energy policy is, like Suncor, "green."

So, apparently is German coal mining techology, an active area of German energy research.

Coal's future suddenly looks brighter in Germany

The public debate over an accelerated phase-out of Germany's nuclear energy program has pushed the nation's domestic coal industry back into the spotlight. Nuclear energy provides over 23 percent of Germany's electricity, and if nuclear plants go offline soon, renewable energy sources are not going to be able to completely cover the shortfall.

"In the short run, we cannot do without conventional energy generation," said Franz-Josef Wodopia, managing director of the German Hard Coal Association (GVSt). "Both in terms of the power supply itself as well as far as its role in stabilizing the power grid."

He said coal will now have to play the "bridge function" that nuclear technology was once meant to as the country transitions to renewable energies.

The liars in the coal/gas/anti-nuke industry are keeping to their bullshit story that coal is a "transitional" fuel, and handing out the delusional horseshit about "efficient" coal plants.  

Like the assholes in Norway who kept hyping the "sequestration" plants to put lipstick on their gas pig, they have no intention of building "transitional" plants, since no one builds a brand new expensive plant with the idea of operating for just one or two decades.    No one.    They're full of shit.   They're liars in Germany.   They intend to operate these filthy plants for the entire lifetime of everyone on the planet who is now living, until the last bit of climate change kills the last person who can stand it.

But, nevertheless, a nice touch is to declare coal mining "green."

Plans are still on the table for a kind of model mine, which is something German mining equipment manufacturers would like to see. Around 90 percent of their revenue of 4 billion euros annually is made abroad. But to remain competitive, they need a testing facility closer to home – a mining pit where they can test new equipment and techniques.

A test area like that, where no commercial mining operations take place, could attract research grant money.

Originally posted to NNadir on Fri Sep 23, 2011 at 07:38 PM PDT.

Also republished by Nuclear dkos.

Poll

Please choose your lie to tell yourself here.

2%1 votes
0%0 votes
5%2 votes
2%1 votes
11%4 votes
8%3 votes
11%4 votes
11%4 votes
8%3 votes
5%2 votes
5%2 votes
5%2 votes
0%0 votes
5%2 votes
16%6 votes

| 36 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Coal sock puppets, the claim that the only reason (6+ / 0-)

    the only reason that anyone can do anything is for money, "clean" coal, "clean" natural gas, coal plants that "could" reach 50% thermodynamic efficiency, hiding coal plants under a "green" mantle, hide rates of other types, and pure, clean, green, sock puppeteer historic troll rates all go here.

  •  OK then . (6+ / 0-)
    In my experience, there are ZERO anti-nukes, whether they are the scientific illiterates in Greenpeace, who are not apologists for dangerous fossil fuel mining, dangerous fossil fuel waste dumping

    http://www.greenpeace.org//eastasia/news/stories/climate-energy/2008/coal-crisis/

    Last year environmental and social costs associated with China's use of coal came to RMB1.7 trillion - that's about 7.1 percent of the nation's GDP for the same year.

    This staggering amount was calculated by China's top economists  in The True Cost of Coal, a new report commissioned by Greenpeace, the Energy Foundation and WWF.

    These so-called "external" costs come from air and water pollution, ecosystem degradation, damage to buildings and infrastructure, and human death and injuries.

    http://www.greenpeace.org/...

    OK , Greenpeace is an apologists for dangerous fossil fuel mining, dangerous fossil fuel waste dumping .
    Facts be damned .

    "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

    by indycam on Fri Sep 23, 2011 at 07:54:37 PM PDT

  •  Nadi, you do passionate diaries that go way (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mother Shipper, erush1345, gzodik

    over the top. We need energy or a lot of humans are going to die without it. And I don't mean just driving your car to work (though job losses could get stratospheric without energy to manufacture and energy to transport) or heating your house... Look how dependent our high production farming is on oil. (And pssssst I am not even going to mention water, contamination by herbicides, pesticides and fertililizers and loss of topsoil). Then there is the transport of food (disregarding transport of trade goods).

    This is going to get real ugly as the ugly truths begin to impact us all.

    I have reservations about nuclear but I am doubtful about the current industry in alternatives is not a lot of fairy dust and dreams ala Disney.

    I think you could reach more if you dialed down the passion and started to present more fatoids and more credible then accusation arguments . But I will be here readin you. I am working on a book called The End of the Oil Age (which is actually going to be about the end of the hydrocarbon age) so I am all ears to good data and arguments.

    Fear is the Mind Killer

    by boophus on Fri Sep 23, 2011 at 08:43:02 PM PDT

    •  Are you familiar with Arthur Rosenfeld's (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gmoke

      Symposium on Energy Efficiency, at UCDavis, with video available via UC TV?
      Esp. "What every President should know about energy efficiency."
      I recommend checking it out. The consensus there is that energy efficiency holds great promise, more than electric cars or renewable energy generation.

      •  Thanks I appreciate the info. I am seriously (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        David54

        trying to be open to see the full spectrum of what we face and I want as much info as I can find. I think that long papers that are carefully researched and not just dogmatic will in the end be far more progressive then finding a position and sticking to it. Much of the resistance to any talk of global warming ( I hate that term ... too easy to confuse people) is really fear.

        I read that there are some new carbon sequestering ideas in agriculture that are very interesting and hopeful. So I think we can find an answer if we begin to discuss what the implications of every act is and what the costs are of doing nothing. Energy conservation should be a way of life for most.  I already practice water conservation even here in rainy Oregon. Fresh clean water is going to be a huge issue as they try to squeeze oil from deeper wells.

        But I am going now to find the site and see if I can watch it.

        Fear is the Mind Killer

        by boophus on Fri Sep 23, 2011 at 10:07:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I have an organic garden here in Texas that I'm in (0+ / 0-)

          the process of developing. I'm working on water conservation, and I tried an experiment with biochar last year. I have several compost piles, although with the drought and heat and due to other priorities time-wise, they didn't have enough water to "cook". I had no vegetable garden, but I did keep a couple of recently transplanted trees alive.
          We actually live adjacent to a well service company with rigs, pumps, large trucks, pipe, etc.
          Pretty interesting perspective here.

  •  I went back to your "wedgies PT 1" dairy, and the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gzodik, bryfry

    paper by Steven Pacala and Robert Socolow is no longer available to non-members.

    I still hope you talk a little about sequestration in part 2.

    •  I think you can still use the PPPL link. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gzodik, Mother Shipper, bryfry

      Part II will be about the dangerous fossil fuel apologetics in the paper, and I have done a fair amount of preperation and some writing for it.

      The best part will be about the "3500 Sleipners"

      The German dangerous fossil fuel apologists/anti-nuke assholes are still talking up this denialist scam.

  •  comedy (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Joieau, mythatsme, lotlizard

    this:

    In my experience, there are ZERO anti-nukes, whether they are the scientific illiterates in Greenpeace or whether they are unaffiliated anti-nukes, who are not apologists for dangerous fossil fuel mining, dangerous fossil fuel waste dumping - directly into their favorite dump, the planetary atmosphere - and dangerous fossil fuel accidents.

    followed by this:

    I have no intention of describing my personal life here, but I can say with admiration that if one is employed by the nuclear industry, one can, should, and must be proud of one's intellectual and moral integrity.

    but thank you, once again, for doing such a good job of representing nuclear advocacy.

    48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

    by Laurence Lewis on Fri Sep 23, 2011 at 08:55:26 PM PDT

    •  Anti-nukes always think climate change is a joke. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gzodik, G2geek, bryfry

      I completely and totally stand by this description.

      Today dangerous fossil fuel concentrations stand at 393 ppm.   Heckuva job.   You must be very proud in the anti-nuke community.

      I have seen dangerous fossil fuel apologists on this website, several of them front pagers, who havre had the gall to pretend to give a fuck about what the scientist Jim Hansen.

      They apparently didn't read his book, Storms of my Grandchildren.

      There are ZERO anti-nukes, zero, who are not apologists for the dangerous fossil fuel industry.    To a person they all engage in soothsaying about some far off date, usually when everyone reading it will be dead, that the so called "renewable nirvana" will come, much like some people talk about the return of Jesus.

      It's a pretty obvious form of dodging and denial.   Climate change isn't something that will take place in 2090.   It's happening now, right this second.

      Meanwhile they do shit like applaud the German energy policy.

      •  your honesty (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lotlizard

        is impressive. thank you again for so well representing nuclear advocacy. i'm sure you convince plenty of people. just not what you intend to convince them.

        48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam (The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers)

        by Laurence Lewis on Sat Sep 24, 2011 at 07:12:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  by definition a vote against nuclear is.... (0+ / 0-)

          .... equivalent to a vote for dirty fossil fuels, unless you're an investor in renewables.  

        •  Well, I'm not about to applaud your coal (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bryfry

          advocacy, nor your obvious lack of familiarity with the contents of science books.

          If you knew anything about the history of science - which, um, you don't - you would no that the exclusion principle did not depend on Wolfgang Pauli being polite to ignoramuses.

          You see my sig line below?   It's um, two sentences.

          The Germans are building and expanding the use of coal plants.   The waste that they will dump in this enterprise will effect every living thing on this planet.    They have a 100% probability of killing people, even if they, and the mines that support them, operate normally.

          Over your head, is it?

          I refuse to show any respect to any scientific illiterate who cannot parse the above sentence, which I will repeat:   "The Germans are building and expanding the use of coal plants."    If you're having any trouble parsing that sentence, maybe you can share with us which words you don't understand.

          Or maybe you're here to tell us they're, um, not building and expanding coal plants.

          In that case, you recall the phrase quoted from John Cole, today on the front page:

          What is so frustrating about it all is how do you fight someone who rejects reality? How do you have a sensible policy debate with people who reject basic facts? It’s like trying to debate members of a cargo cult- the modern GOP carry the crosses but have no idea what it means to be christian. They talk about free markets, but have no understanding of economics. Just say deregulate and tax cuts a lot, and MAGIC WILL HAPPEN. Evolution? LIES! Climate change? LIES! Modern Medicine and vaccines? LIES! KEEP GOVERNMENT OUT OF MY MEDICARE! That scooter just magically showed up from the scooter store, like a coca cola bottle from heaven!

          Of course, the magical thinking in this case, the cargo cult, is the notion that shutting nuclear plants is NOT an endorsement of coal.   The direct experimental results, which are obvious clearly contradict this.   I have seen and heard anti-intellectual, anti-science anti-nukes come here and offer the completely thermodynamically illiterate claim - which is hardly shy of creationism in its contempt for scientific thinking - that wind and solar are alternatives to coal.

          It's garbage, just like the garbage your pals in Germany are dumping into the lungs of every breathing higher organism on this planet.

          Have a nice day.

  •  You need to stop calling out people (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gmoke, Joieau, mythatsme, Andhakari, lotlizard

    The so-called sockpuppet changed her name with administration approval and her old account has not been in use since then. You were told that!
    You and her can disagree, but you have no right to such accusations. You'll lose all credibility.

    Muslims, Christians we're all Egyptians.

    by mint julep on Fri Sep 23, 2011 at 09:01:45 PM PDT

    •  Sure (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LIsoundview, G2geek

      It's not like Joy ever calls out people in her diaries, is it?

      Where does her credibility stand?

      An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup.
      -- H. L. Mencken

      by bryfry on Fri Sep 23, 2011 at 10:16:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Accusing someone (3+ / 0-)

        of being a 'sockpuppet' is a serious offens.

        Muslims, Christians we're all Egyptians.

        by mint julep on Fri Sep 23, 2011 at 11:39:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The sock is on the other hand (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gzodik, G2geek, bryfry

          NNadir has from time to time been accused of being a sockpuppet by several anti-nuclear folks, probably including by the afore not named Joyful person.

          Was that a serious offense too?

        •  great, we'll see if you HR the TJs of.... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bryfry

          ... anti-nukers who do the same thing.

          Yes, we'll be watching, and reminding you of your "principled stand."  

          ----

          Toking on coal is a lousy buzz.

          •  Yeah (0+ / 0-)

            It reminds me of a little turd who follows me around, HR'ing my comments on the lame excuse that I might have written something "insulting."

            I've noticed, however, that this little hypocritical turd never HR's any of the many comments in which somebody personally insults me.

            If you want to know who this person is, I'm sure that he or she will be along presently to HR this comment for being "insulting." ;-)

            An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup.
            -- H. L. Mencken

            by bryfry on Sat Sep 24, 2011 at 05:37:04 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I've never seen anyone insult you , (0+ / 0-)

              please post links to any or all the insults !
              I double dog dare you , again .

              "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

              by indycam on Sat Sep 24, 2011 at 06:12:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  This is a diary about energy and ignorance. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                bryfry

                While you are, in fact, ignorant, the diary is not about you.

                You are NO longer welcome in this diary to engage in paranoid stalking nor to distract from the topic at hand, about which you have nothing to say.

                If you want to write a diary whining about your personal issues, do so.   I'm sure I'll have nothing to do with it, since I am uninteresting in what you have to say or any of your cry baby childish antics.

                I believe that the owner of this website has indicated that diaries are to be treated as if it is the home of the writer.

                You are not welcome in this diary, nor any of my other diaries.   You have nothing useful or intelligent to say about any topics, and simply are engaging in paranoid and disturbing self absorbed nonsense.

                Get out and stay out.

                •  Can you post a link to the rules you are talking (0+ / 0-)

                  about ?
                  When I am talked about by bryfry , I will respond .

                  "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                  by indycam on Sun Sep 25, 2011 at 08:11:06 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Go ask the sockpuppet (0+ / 0-)

                    At the very least, you should go ask her what she meant when she tried to kick me out of her diaries, using the exact same excuse.

                    Better yet, why don't you ask Markos about it. I already have.

                    Given that you have chosen to ignore Markos's warnings about hijacking diaries with meta fights, I personally don't think that you give a damn about what Markos thinks. You'll use any excuse to try to bully other people here, because it gets you off.

                    I'm apparently now HROS in the sockpuppet's diaries. Just be glad that NNadir has too much class to do the same to you.

                    An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup.
                    -- H. L. Mencken

                    by bryfry on Sun Sep 25, 2011 at 08:44:03 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  ... (0+ / 0-)
                      Given that you have chosen to ignore Markos's warnings about hijacking diaries with meta fights,
                      Where , when was this warning given ? Did he send you a private message ? If you go back to the comments and look at the time stamps you will find it was you who brought the fight into the thread not me .
                      I personally don't think that you give a damn about what Markos thinks.
                      That's funny coming from you , you break the rules here all the time and have said you don't care about the rules . In this very thread you have reced nnadirs insults of other site users .
                      You'll use any excuse to try to bully other people here, because it gets you off.
                      I have been asking you to stop insulting people , you have refused .
                      Just be glad that NNadir has too much class to do the same to you.
                      "Class" ? Count all the insults he has flung in just this diary , then get back to me about his "Class".
                      Go ask the sockpuppet
                      I'm asking you . Link to the rule if you can , I double dog dare you .

                      "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                      by indycam on Mon Sep 26, 2011 at 07:37:00 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  ... (0+ / 0-)

                      The sockpuppet has CONFESSED to being a (2+ / 1-)

                      Recommended by:
                          bryfry, LIsoundview
                      Hidden by:
                          indycam
                      .......................
                      Mojo: No Rate

                      UID: 115259

                      Joined: Jan 8, 2007

                      bryfry's Diaries
                      ..............................
                      Mojo: No Rate

                      UID: 17248

                      Joined: Aug 18, 2004

                      LIsoundview's Diaries
                      ................................

                      Please stop insulting people , please stop recommending insults .
                      Comment all you like but edit out any insults before you hit the post button .
                      Recommend any and all comments that you like if they don't contain insults .
                      When you see one from your team flinging insults
                      mention to them that its not OK .

                      "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                      by indycam on Mon Sep 26, 2011 at 07:49:35 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You might try (0+ / 0-)

                        not having people's ability to rate comments removed in order to stifle debate, if you want people to believe that you do not enjoy throwing your weight around.

                        Frankly, although not a prolific poster, I am a lifelong Democrat and as you show in the above post, a member of the site since 2004.   I did not appreciate your abuse of power, and frankly, your actions do not earn my respect.

                        I do wish that you would actually read some of NNadir's diaries rather than combing through them for language to feel insulted by.  

                        If the diaries annoy you, good:  actually look up some facts on the subject.

                        In general, try to disprove anything NNadir has listed as a fact (rather than his way of expressing those facts) by coming up with a believable reference.  That's what having someone annoy you should provoke, more and better debate, not hiding behind hide rates, abusive diary tagging, and interfering with other people's accounts in general.

                        Debate is good;  this kind of pettifoggery is beneath you and the site.

                        And frankly, since you have levelled the same kind of criticism at NNadir, your behavior make it difficult to believe anything you say unless you are supplying quality references.  This is more a critique of myself than of you.  The facts do not change because of your behavior.

                        •  ... (0+ / 0-)
                          You might try not having people's ability to rate comments removed in order to stifle debate
                          I linked your uprate of insults to Kos , he read it and came to his decision . If you have a problem with what the owner of this site has done , contact him .
                          I did not appreciate your abuse of power, and frankly, your actions do not earn my respect.
                          What power do you think I have ? And how did I abuse that power ? As for respect , you recommended insults , flaming insults .
                          I do wish that you would actually read some of NNadir's diaries rather than combing through them for language to feel insulted by.
                          What makes you think I don't read them fully ? What proof do you have to back up that opinion ? As for "language to feel insulted by" that was Kos who decided that in fact the insults were insults . Are you saying Kos got it all wrong and what he felt were insults were not in fact insults ?
                          In general, try to disprove anything NNadir has listed as a fact (rather than his way of expressing those facts) by coming up with a believable reference.
                           It's not for you to say that he should be able to express himself in any way he likes . He , you and I must express our ideas within the rules . If you can not play by the rules , the rules Kos has asked everyone to live by on his site , you should find a new place that has rules you can live with .
                          http://www.dailykos.com/...
                          Debate is good;  this kind of pettifoggery is beneath you and the site.
                          From the faq pages
                          There is also a fifth kind of troll: the simple asshole. It doesn't matter how pure your motives are, if you can't get along with other users, you're not doing yourself, them, the site, or anything else any good. 90% of all trolls are banned because of their behaviors towards other users, not because of their opinions.
                          Trusted Users have a responsibility to police the general tenor and content of conversations. The site caters to progressive Democrats, and others are welcome to the extent that they wish to make themselves welcome. And don't be an ass.

                          Kos has asked us all to point out to him problems , he has taken on the role that was being done by MeteorBlades , he has said that he can not read every comment and find all the problems by himself . I pointed out to Kos what I thought was a problem , Kos looked into it and took what he thought was appropriate action . If you feel you have been mistreated , contact Kos , he is a reasonable person with a great deal of knowledge about all the ins and outs of his web site . Explain to him how I am wrong and how to fix things in a way that will make you happy .

                          You might try
                          not having people's ability to rate comments removed in order to stifle debate,
                          Your ability to debate has not been stifled , you can engage in debate on DailyKos to your hearts content . You just have lost your ratings abilities . You lost your ratings ability because of what you chose to do , nobody else lost them for you .

                          Kos not long ago removed some peoples ratings abilities , then just a few days ago he gave back everyone's rating abilities . He said at that time he hoped everyone had learned the lesson , then you recommended insults .

                          http://www.dailykos.com/...

                          I am restoring everyone's ratings abilities. That includes people who lost their rating abilities before my own purge. The "NR" will remain on their mojometer until the next time they are rec'd.

                          I've made my point. Hopefully, people have learned to play nicer.


                          "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                          by indycam on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 08:19:03 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  S'OK (0+ / 0-)

                            I am no one that I expect Markos to listen to.  I drop by to read the news, and very occasionally comment on things that I am interested in - CT politicians and politics, Republican foibles, privacy rights, cooking, gardening, Native American issues, and energy policy.  It is a long  time since I stopped commenting enough to retain Trusted User status, although I had it for quite a while,  some years ago.

                            It is Markos' site, and I believe he has the right to run it exactly as he sees fit.  He doesn't need to waste his time having me run to him complaining.  He has lots more important things to be doing.  He owes me no changes nor explanations.

                            Frankly, I did not find the comment I rated positively to be an egregious insult, since IMO you use exactly the same level of language, and was very surprised that you did become upset to the point that you decided to turn me in, but that's life.  In fact, I find this whole exchange very surreal.

                            I feel  a bit like Johnny Fever who got fired for saying booger on the air. My stupidity.

                            I found that you (or whoever did it) tagging this diary with the sole tag "Liar" to be a lot more insulting (not to mention destructive of accurate site searching), but opinions always differ.  I jumped to the conclusion that you were the one who did it, because you were the person most visible of that stripe, but it may not have been you.  If it wasn't you, then I apologize for my assumptions.

                            As it happens, some kind soul has fixed the tags, but I  would not be astounded to see more tagging abuse in the future.

                            If I see it, I may report it, since kos wants our help to clean up the site.  Thank you for telling me about that.  

                          •  I did not add or delete any tag . (0+ / 0-)

                            I never even saw that tag on this diary .
                            I really never look at the tags .

                            Without the name attached to the tag as it was in the past
                            its difficult to know who did that tag , for all we know nnadir did it .

                            And yes , if you see tag abuse report it asap .
                            They can see who did the tag and they can take appropriate action .

                            since IMO you use exactly the same level of language
                            Please link to where I used the same level of language since MeteorBlades became active in site governance ? With the change over I cleaned up my act to try to go along and help with what they were correctly trying to do .
                            I will freely admit that I stooped for awhile to nnadirs level to try and get him to clean up his act . Asking nicely was not getting any results so I tried to fight fire with fire , that didn't work any better .
                            As I recall you admitted that he was indeed what I was calling him .  

                            "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                            by indycam on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 04:52:17 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  Eh ... (0+ / 0-)

                          bullies are all the same. This one just doesn't know how to use punctuation properly.

                          An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup.
                          -- H. L. Mencken

                          by bryfry on Tue Sep 27, 2011 at 03:01:29 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                •  False accusation of stalking are forbidden . (0+ / 0-)

                  And on the subject of energy and ignorance , do go on about Green peace .

                  http://www.dailykos.com/...

                  OK then . (6+ / 0-)

                      In my experience, there are ZERO anti-nukes, whether they are the scientific illiterates in Greenpeace, who are not apologists for dangerous fossil fuel mining, dangerous fossil fuel waste dumping

                  http://www.greenpeace.org//eastasia/news/stories/climate-energy/2008/coal-crisis/

                      Last year environmental and social costs associated with China's use of coal came to RMB1.7 trillion - that's about 7.1 percent of the nation's GDP for the same year.

                      This staggering amount was calculated by China's top economists  in The True Cost of Coal, a new report commissioned by Greenpeace, the Energy Foundation and WWF.

                      These so-called "external" costs come from air and water pollution, ecosystem degradation, damage to buildings and infrastructure, and human death and injuries.

                  http://www.greenpeace.org/....

                  OK , Greenpeace is an apologists for dangerous fossil fuel mining, dangerous fossil fuel waste dumping .
                  Facts be damned .

                  "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                  by indycam on Sun Sep 25, 2011 at 08:15:21 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  First of all (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  indycam, Glen The Plumber, Dragon5616

                  you cannot keep people out of your diaries. If you want to control your commenters, go set up a Blogspot site and happily choose your own audience.

                  Second of all, this diary is pretty dickish, hence it's a free for all.

                  Third, that doesn't excuse the uprating of insults, so i've taken action on that front.

                  •  Good advice (0+ / 0-)
                    First of all you cannot keep people out of your diaries. If you want to control your commenters, go set up a Blogspot site and happily choose your own audience.

                    Thank you very much for this information. Perhaps you should inform other users here of this rule, since she has tried the same tactic to keep me out of her diaries.

                    This is a universal rule, isn't it?

                    An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup.
                    -- H. L. Mencken

                    by bryfry on Sun Sep 25, 2011 at 10:38:12 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  "you liar" (0+ / 0-)

              "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

              by indycam on Sat Sep 24, 2011 at 06:19:50 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  I stand corrected (0+ / 0-)

              It appears that he, she, or it is embarrassed about his/her/its past behavior and has refrained from leveling his/her/its usual punishment of childish and inappropriate HR's and has, instead, fallen back on the time-tested technique of playground taunts.

              Let it not be said that I'm unwilling to admit when I'm wrong. ;-)

              Given past experience, however, I predict that I shall now be threatened and ordered to "clean up my act."

              An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup.
              -- H. L. Mencken

              by bryfry on Sat Sep 24, 2011 at 08:29:12 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I will go on hide rating your comments (0+ / 0-)

                any time I see you insulting other people .
                You can avoid being hide rated for insulting people by not insulting people . Your choice .

                "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                by indycam on Sun Sep 25, 2011 at 08:11:08 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  The sockpuppet has CONFESSED to being a (2+ / 1-)
          Recommended by:
          bryfry, LIsoundview
          Hidden by:
          indycam

          sockpuppet, actually.

          There is, and always will be, only one person on this website who will claim to be a "health physicist" while actually not giving a rat's ass about human health and while having provided zero evidence of ever having opened a science book, never mind a physics book in her, his, or its life.

          Also the sockpuppet's new name actually refers to his, her or its old name in what apparently passes for wit in the anti-intellectual climate of the anti-nuke coal promoting frauds here.

          She, he or it also has some kind of fetish - along with his, her or its fetish for espousing ignorance about nuclear energy - for puppeteering, not that I give a rat's ass.

          As far as I'm concerned, 100% of the anti-nukes on this planet are responsible for the 5,000 deaths that take place each day from air pollution, attributable both to "renewable" biomass burning and dangerous fossil fuel waste dumping.    They are also going to kill a lot of people through their complete and total indifference to climate change.  Thus, in my mind, they're nothing short of murderers.

          As one can see in the comments section of this diary, they seem to feel that people need to be nice to them in order to have open minds, or to do the right thing.    This is appalling.   It's kind of like a claim that one should be a racist if a person who is appalled by racism is personally unpleasant.

          I have never encountered a rote dogmatic anti-nuke who is not an asshole.

          Here is the coal promoting asshole's diary in which she, it, or he comes out as a puppet.

    •  How was anyone called out in this diary? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      G2geek, bryfry, LIsoundview

      There are no names or usernames mentioned (aside from Amory Lovins) as far as I can see.

  •  More wankery from a known narcissist. (0+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    Hidden by:
    G2geek

    (The two-handed variety)

  •  I am for nuclear power (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ebohlman

    But I don't think we should be burying it in the ground, I think that we should be reprocessing it into more fuel and or shooting it into the sun.

    We have let nuke's large downside dwarf it's even larger upside. I think nuclear power can be done safely and that is a good short term bridge between carbons and renewable energy.

  •  Lying about data to prop up the LNT theory (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gzodik, northstarbarn, bryfry

    Unfortunately it is not just people like Amory Lovins with pocketbook interests that cook and misrepresent their scientific data.  People with strong beliefs in various areas do it too.  Even Nobel Laureates.

    In the case of nuclear power, and in fact, nuclear everything, lying about your data has a long, long history.

    Edward Calabrese, a UMass researcher, whose own research had not been able to show the same damage from low dose radiation that Nobel Laureate Hermann Muller had shown, recently obtained access to Muller's papers, which were recently declassified.   Muller's original data does not support the Linear No Threshold Theory.

    And what Calabrese found was that Muller lied about his data in his zeal to stop atmospheric atomic testing.

    It was a good cause, but the falsified science has affected our entire regulatory structure and assumptions about the health effects of radiation.

    Calabrese's work was published in a peer-reviewed journal recently.

     http://www.umass.edu/...


    UMass Amherst Researcher Points to Suppression of Evidence on Radiation Effects by 1946 Nobel Laureate

    Sept. 20, 2011

    AMHERST, Mass. - University of Massachusetts Amherst environmental toxicologist Edward Calabrese, whose career research shows that low doses of some chemicals and radiation are benign or even helpful, says he has uncovered evidence that one of the fathers of radiation genetics, Nobel Prize winner Hermann Muller,  knowingly lied when he claimed in 1946 that there is no safe level of radiation exposure.

    Calabrese’s interpretation of this history is supported by letters and other materials he has retrieved, many from formerly classified files.  He published key excerpts this month in Archives of Toxicology and Environmental and Molecular Mutagenesis .

    Muller was awarded the 1946 Nobel Prize in medicine for his discovery that X-rays induce genetic mutations. This helped him call attention to his long-time concern over the dangers of atomic testing. Muller’s intentions were good, Calabrese points out, but his decision not to mention key scientific evidence against his position has had a far-reaching impact on our approach to regulating radiation and chemical exposure.

    Calabrese uncovered correspondence from November 1946 between Muller and Curt Stern at the University of Rochester about a major experiment that had recently evaluated fruit fly germ cell mutations in Stern’s laboratory. It failed to support the linear dose-response model at low exposure levels, but in Muller’s speech in Oslo a few weeks later he insisted there was "no escape from the conclusion that there is no threshold." To Calabrese, this amounts to deliberate concealment and he says Stern raised no objection.

     Calabrese adds, "This isn’t an academic debate, it’s really practical, because all of our rules about chemical and low-level radiation are based on the premises that Muller and the National Academy of Sciences’ (NAS) committee adopted at that time. Now, after all these years, it’s very hard when people have been frightened to death by this dogma to persuade them that we don’t need to be scared by certain low-dose exposures

    There's more, and it's worth a read

    •  While it is better to take the effect on (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gzodik

      humans into account than not, making man the measure of human activities is an act of hubris.  Man should take cognizance of his impact on all of creation and avoid purely destructive behavior, especially the destruction of whatever man considers useless or a nuisance.  The propensity to destroy what man doesn't like is what is manifest as evil.

      Creation = good

      Destruction = bad

      "Creative destruction" is neither neutral nor rendered positive by the intent.  That is, to destroy with the purpose of hurrying creation along does not transform a bad into a good, even though idealists propound just that -- the idea or intent is sufficient without the act.

      For a real-time example of how that works consider the cold blooded killing of Troy Davis.  The idea or intent of preventing future murders is used to justify the actual killing of Davis.  What's peculiar about this way of thinking is that it violates the linear structure of time (using an anticipated future event to account for current action) it relies on consequence to explain a behavior--i.e. "we can do this now because we don't want something else to happen in the future."
      Perhaps that's inevitable when a template (for time, in this case) is present in the brain but experience isn't recorded in the proper slots--like a person "playing" a piano by randomly hitting the keys.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuzZQ8LTE2c

      by hannah on Sat Sep 24, 2011 at 04:00:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Is this a mosh pit diary? (0+ / 0-)

    Or is referring to everyone who would prefer we avoid nuclear as 'puppets of the fossil fuel industry', 'scientific illiterates', 'apologists', and 'assholes' what passes for good manners around the site these days?

    And the smear by association was nice.  Hitler was thought to have been vegetarian, so obviously all vegetarians are fascists right?  Heck he was a painter as well, and come to think of it, my mass murders have painted while in prison, so obviously painters are all serial killers in waiting, right?

    Or do you honestly have such a weak grasp of causality that you believe that preferring we not use nuclear power is what causes amoral rich guys to want to make money anyway they can?  If 'Amory Lovins' is against nuclear, chances are strong he simply thinks he can make more money getting energy to sell another way.

  •  Did some nuclear particles tickled your brain? nt (0+ / 0-)
  •  Why is it when Germany stumbles upon a really, (0+ / 0-)

    really bad idea; it spreads through their society with such fervour that no one dare stand opposed? The German zeal to exterminate all nuclear facilities in the context of senior political affirmations about the mastery of renewables technology frightens me. No doubt their culture and values will enable the implementation of this policy with  "mechanised, German efficiency".

    They are taking the world to a bad place.

    Excuses are like assholes: everybody's got one, and they all stink.

    by Nuclear Australia on Sat Sep 24, 2011 at 11:55:50 AM PDT

    •  Your language is inflammatory, mate. (0+ / 0-)

      There is absolutely no need for that. The anti-nuke "fervor" in Germany started slowly at the grassroots level inspired by the Green Party 30-odd years ago and was cemented by the Chernobyl incident, when radioactive clouds wafted across their backyards and playgrounds.

      Germany is following its own path, and I have never seen that country trying to impose its non-nuclear path on others. Just because the German people are massively against nuclear power - and that is primarily because they are not confident that human error can ever be ruled out entirely - doesn't mean that everyone else should follow. If they do, that cannot be blamed on Germany. That's just absurd.

      Bad idea? To you maybe. So go there and try to convince them that you're right. But also be advised that they are against coal, as well, and only reluctantly accept gas as a tepid compromise for the time being. I'm talking about the populace, not the government. 16 coal-powered plants have been STOPPED by people power, 11 of those in the last 3 years alone.
       http://www.bund.net/...

      This is the kind of information that gets completely left out in these diaries.

      Here are some Germany per-capita energy statistics, as a percentage of USA per-capita usage:

      Oil use: 51%
      Natural gas: 45%
      Coal: 55%
      Electricity consumption: 53%
      GHG emissions: around 50%

      Seeing that a country with the standard of living and industrial manufacturing base of Germany can get by on half the US per capita amount for electricity and for each of the three major fossil fuels, I would suggest that perhaps a greater need than maintaining the current rate of US energy consumption would be finding ways to consume less outrageous amounts of energy in the first place. Efficiency and conservation projects tend to have faster payback times too.

      Posted by retrograde at
      http://www.dailykos.com/...
      Statistics on per capita CO2 emissions by country:
      http://www.nationmaster.com/...

      I would say my compatriots have a lot more work to do in their own backyards  than Germany does. And what the German government says it wants to or will do is NOT necessarily what is GOING to happen. Heh. The people are listened to and heard. How about that?

      „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

      by translatorpro on Wed Sep 28, 2011 at 03:36:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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